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Re: [ddlm-group] The Grazulis eliding proposal: how to incorporateinto CIF?. .. .. .
- To: Group finalising DDLm and associated dictionaries <ddlm-group@iucr.org>
- Subject: Re: [ddlm-group] The Grazulis eliding proposal: how to incorporateinto CIF?. .. .. .
- From: "Herbert J. Bernstein" <yaya@bernstein-plus-sons.com>
- Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2011 18:17:49 -0400 (EDT)
- In-Reply-To: <8F77913624F7524AACD2A92EAF3BFA54299C88A2EF@11.stjude.org>
- References: <BANLkTi=KKXU7HCc7r2Xji0ssaJg+xkw9Jw@mail.gmail.com><8F77913624F7524AACD2A92EAF3BFA54299C88A2EA@11.stjude.org><alpine.BSF.2.00.1106281001210.95500@epsilon.pair.com><8F77913624F7524AACD2A92EAF3BFA54299C88A2EC@11.stjude.org><alpine.BSF.2.00.1106281436390.6872@epsilon.pair.com><8F77913624F7524AACD2A92EAF3BFA54299C88A2EF@11.stjude.org>
Dear John, There is nothing terribly wrong with any one aspect of the CIF2 document. My problem is that for me it does not hang together as a coherent whole espcially on the issue of string representation. Right now to me it is an uncomfortable mixture of CIF1 and Python string handling, and, as I have repeatedly stated, I would prefer to change to being entirely consistent with Python. If that is not to be, I would prefer to go back to CIF1 string handling. That is and has been my position for a very long time. If something I have said in the past discussions is not clear, I will be happy to amplify, but right now I don't know what I can say that would not have me repeating myself. Regards, Herbert ===================================================== Herbert J. Bernstein, Professor of Computer Science Dowling College, Kramer Science Center, KSC 121 Idle Hour Blvd, Oakdale, NY, 11769 +1-631-244-3035 yaya@dowling.edu ===================================================== On Tue, 28 Jun 2011, Bollinger, John C wrote: > Dear Herbert, > > On Tuesday, June 28, 2011 1:46 PM, Herbert J. Bernstein wrote: > >> I fear we are not comunicating very effectively. > > > Evidently not. > > >> I am >> _not_ comfortable with the current state of the CIF2 >> document, and I do not find the current emendation to >> be an improvement. > > > Your opinions about the document and the proposed change are entirely at > your discretion, of course, but it does come as a surprise to me that > you think the entire changes document unsatisfactory. If there are > issues with it that you have not previously brought before the group > then I would greatly appreciate the opportunity to hear and perhaps > comment on them before Madrid. Even those who will actually be present > in Madrid might appreciate the opportunity to consider those issues > ahead of time. > > As far as I am aware, the only point of CIF 2.0 syntax remaining open > for discussion is the (in-)ability of CIF 2.0 to represent arbitrary > strings. Inasmuch as both this working group and COMCIFS already > approved the changes document, I would be very reluctant to reopen it > for general changes. Nevertheless, if you have discovered serious flaws > in it then better to fix them sooner than later. Otherwise, it is > unproductive to criticize proposals for being based on the only document > available to base them on. > > >> Much as I would dearly love to have >> the current line-folding protocol in CIF2, I think it >> is much more important to work on making CIF2 into >> something clear and coherent. I for one find the >> either-or approach to prefixes and line-folding unnecessary >> and confusing. > > > Line folding and prefixes are compatible. Saulius pointed this out in > his initial description of the protocol, as a group we commented on it > in our subsequent discussion, and my formal proposal from earlier today > specifically and explicitly provides for them to work together. I'm not > sure how you acquired an impression to the contrary, but if it was from > my text then please explain so that I can improve it. > > >> When working with old fortran compilers, >> I _need_ the line folding protocol. If the prefixes >> are bing introduced, I need a way to deal with both the >> prefixes _and_ the line-folding protocol, not have it >> be either-or. I understand that mose people don't >> see a problem, but I work with software both on new computers >> and very, very old computers (e.g. I just brought an Indigo >> back to life). > > > I don't see a problem specific to line-folding and prefixes. Not even > for very old compilers. I do appreciate that some old compilers present > issues for text processing in general, and that these manifest in the > context of CIF. I think most of us do, else CIF 2.0 would be different. > > >> I repeat my suggestion that we need to meet and talk things >> out. Maybe then I will understand what the rest of you are trying >> to do, and maybe I will be able to explain what I am trying >> to do. > > > It was my understanding that there would indeed be opportunities for > those who attend Madrid to meet, and I hope that at least one such > meeting happens. It will bear more fruit the better its participants > can prepare for it, however. If I were going to be present, then I > would want to have as specific an idea as possible of the topics to be > covered. Bringing those up here, in advance, would have the added > advantage of including, at least to some extent, group members who > otherwise would be shut out. > > > Regards, > > John > > -- > John C. Bollinger, Ph.D. > Department of Structural Biology > St. Jude Children's Research Hospital > > > > > Email Disclaimer: www.stjude.org/emaildisclaimer > > _______________________________________________ > ddlm-group mailing list > ddlm-group@iucr.org > http://scripts.iucr.org/mailman/listinfo/ddlm-group > _______________________________________________ ddlm-group mailing list ddlm-group@iucr.org http://scripts.iucr.org/mailman/listinfo/ddlm-group
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- [ddlm-group] The Grazulis eliding proposal: how to incorporate intoCIF? (James Hester)
- Re: [ddlm-group] The Grazulis eliding proposal: how to incorporateinto CIF?. . (Bollinger, John C)
- Re: [ddlm-group] The Grazulis eliding proposal: how to incorporateinto CIF?. . (Herbert J. Bernstein)
- Re: [ddlm-group] The Grazulis eliding proposal: how to incorporateinto CIF?. .. . (Bollinger, John C)
- Re: [ddlm-group] The Grazulis eliding proposal: how to incorporateinto CIF?. .. . (Herbert J. Bernstein)
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