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Re: [ddlm-group] Space as a list item separator>

Since this issue is not yet fully closed, for clarification as delimiters of
tokens within a compound data type, comma and space are not exactly
equivalent. The delimiters (that are equivalent) are

 [:space:]+  # --- for white space delimited

 [:space:]* , [:space:]*  # --- for comma delimited

[:space:] matches a single whitespace character, * is the Kleene Star
meaning zero (0) or more instances of a matche and + is the Kleene Plus
meaning one (1) or more instances of the match.

With that qualification, I agree with Herb's assessment.

On 1/12/09 8:35 PM, "Herbert J. Bernstein" <yaya@bernstein-plus-sons.com>
wrote:

> If both comma and space are permitted then I would treat
> 
> [1, 2, 3  4 ]   or  [1,2,3 4]
> 
> as equivalent and equivalent to
> 
> [1 2 3 4] and [1 , 2 , 3 , 4] and [ 1 2 3 4 ]
> 
> At least that is the way I have coded CIFtbx and CBFlib.
> =====================================================
>   Herbert J. Bernstein, Professor of Computer Science
>     Dowling College, Kramer Science Center, KSC 121
>          Idle Hour Blvd, Oakdale, NY, 11769
> 
>                   +1-631-244-3035
>                   yaya@dowling.edu
> =====================================================
> 
> On Tue, 1 Dec 2009, John Westbrook wrote:
> 
>> Could I ask for a clarification of the interpretation of a mixed case
>> such as:
>> 
>> [1, 2, 3  4 ]   or  [1,2,3 4]
>> 
>> If quote and space are permitted are the above going to satisfy the
>> syntax requiremens?
>> 
>> John
>> 
>> 
>> Herbert J. Bernstein wrote:
>>> First amending the arguments
>>> 
>>> To summarise the arguments:
>>> 
>>> 1. In favour of both space and comma
>>>    - comma is used in some other non-CIF contexts as a list delimiter
>>>    - comma allows a large subset of lists and arrays to be carried
>>> opaquely in CIF 1 and CIF 1.1 documents.
>>> 
>>> 2. Against comma:
>>>    - A single type of separator makes the grammar simpler
>>>    - Space is used everywhere else in CIF as a separator (consistency)
>>>    - Comma can then be used in non-delimited strings
>>> 
>>> Then
>>> 
>>> I vote for comma and space -- Herbert
>>> 
>>> =====================================================
>>>  Herbert J. Bernstein, Professor of Computer Science
>>>    Dowling College, Kramer Science Center, KSC 121
>>>         Idle Hour Blvd, Oakdale, NY, 11769
>>> 
>>>                  +1-631-244-3035
>>>                  yaya@dowling.edu
>>> =====================================================
>>> 
>>> On Tue, 1 Dec 2009, James Hester wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Dear CIF2 people: the time has come to vote on the list item separator
>>>> issue.  Firstly: as far as I know, nobody is against space as a
>>>> separator,
>>>> so spaces will be possible list item separators.  Some may be against
>>>> commas, so this vote is on whether or not to allow commas.
>>>> 
>>>> To summarise the arguments:
>>>> 
>>>> 1. In favour of both space and comma
>>>>    - comma is used in some other non-CIF contexts as a list delimiter
>>>> 
>>>> 2. Against comma:
>>>>    - A single type of separator makes the grammar simpler
>>>>    - Space is used everywhere else in CIF as a separator (consistency)
>>>>    - Comma can then be used in non-delimited strings
>>>> 
>>>> Space only: Nick, James (Nick is here)
>>>> Comma and Space: ?
>>>> 
>>>> On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 5:30 PM, James Hester <jamesrhester@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>       More specifically, CIF1.1 excludes square brackets as the first
>>>>       character in a non-delimited string.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 9:33 AM, James Hester <jamesrhester@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>       Dear Herbert: as CIF 1.1 doesn't define lists, I'm not
>>>>       sure why you suggest that the example below is a valid
>>>>       tag.
>>>> 
>>>>       On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 12:36 AM, Herbert J. Bernstein
>>>>       <yaya@bernstein-plus-sons.com> wrote:
>>>>             Sorry something got lost in the prior message.
>>>>              It should have
>>>>             read:
>>>> 
>>>>                   Dear Colleagues,
>>>> 
>>>>                    Back to the question of commas.
>>>>                    If you accept the desirability of
>>>>                   having a CIF 1.5, commas in lists
>>>>                   become very useful.  Someone with
>>>>                   a CIF 1.1 editor will be able to
>>>>                   prepare a CIF 1.5 file for many
>>>>                   useful cases by doing all lists
>>>>                   with commas and no embedded blanks
>>>>                   as long as they can make their
>>>>                   lists fit on single lines.  In CIF
>>>>                   1.1
>>>> 
>>>>                   [[1,2,3],[4,5,6],[7,8,9]]
>>>> 
>>>>                   is a valid value for a tag, but
>>>> 
>>>>                   [[1 2 3] [4 5 6] [7 8 9]]
>>>> 
>>>> is not.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> No, neither example is a valid CIF 1.1 tag.  CIF 1.1 explicitly
>>>> excludes brackets as the first character of a non-delimited
>>>> string.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>             Having the option of commas in lists
>>>>             will help to smooth the
>>>>             transition for at least some people.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> T +61 (02) 9717 9907
>>>> F +61 (02) 9717 3145
>>>> M +61 (04) 0249 4148
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> T +61 (02) 9717 9907
>>>> F +61 (02) 9717 3145
>>>> M +61 (04) 0249 4148
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> T +61 (02) 9717 9907
>>>> F +61 (02) 9717 3145
>>>> M +61 (04) 0249 4148
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> 
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>> 
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cheers

Nick

--------------------------------
Associate Professor N. Spadaccini, PhD
School of Computer Science & Software Engineering

The University of Western Australia    t: +61 (0)8 6488 3452
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