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Re: [ddlm-group] Searching for a compromise on eliding

If John W. and Ralf can accept P-prime, for the sake of consensus I am 
willing to go along.  My thanks to James for suggesting it.

   Regards,
     Herbert
=====================================================
  Herbert J. Bernstein, Professor of Computer Science
    Dowling College, Kramer Science Center, KSC 121
         Idle Hour Blvd, Oakdale, NY, 11769

                  +1-631-244-3035
                  [email protected]
=====================================================

On Fri, 25 Feb 2011, James Hester wrote:

> Dear DDLm-group,
>
> I think we have all had a decent chance to argue our case for
> Proposals P, F and F'.  I have also been in small side discussions
> with Ralf and John W.  Their points of view can be summarised as
> follows:
> (i) Behaviour of triple-quoted strings will be too confusing unless
> Python behaviour is followed (Ralf)
> (ii) There is considerable criticism of CIF in the macromolecular
> community because of idiosyncratic behaviour, particularly concerning
> quoting.  We should therefore stick to accepted standards as much as
> possible (John W)
>
> For John W and Ralf these points outweigh any of the disadvantages of
> Proposal P, and so Proposal P remains their first choice.  Proposal P
> is therefore the first choice of 3 out of 5 COMCIFS voters, and the
> last choice of the other two (I would rank it worse than doing
> nothing, actually).  I note that non-voting members are uniformly
> opposed to Proposal P.
>
> I therefore want to try to seek some common middle ground in the hope
> that I can find a proposal that could be at least as acceptable as
> Proposal P to Ralf and/or Herbert and/or John W.
>
> Consider the following four new proposals - P-prime, Q, G and null:
>
> * Proposal P-prime: triple-quoted strings are treated as for Python
> 2.7.  No Unicode or raw strings are defined (ie no strings starting
> u""" or r""").
>
> I interpret John W and Ralf's position to be that they would be able
> to support this proposal as the preferred choice, as our syntax would
> still be entirely consistent with Python.  This proposal is a
> considerable improvement on Proposal P, because the dangers of raw
> strings are taken out of the equation, and the Unicode database is no
> longer a dependency.  We are still left with a whole bunch of (frankly
> pointless) elides, leading to Proposal Q:
>
> * Proposal Q: As for Proposal P-prime, with the following changes:
> (1) Only <backslash><delimiter> and <backslash><backslash> when it
> precedes <backslash><delimiter> are recognised escape sequences at the
> syntactical level
> (2) A DDLm string type, e.g. "CText", is defined in com_val.dic for
> which the remaining escape sequences have the meaning assigned to them
> by the Python 2.7 standard.  mmCIF and related domains can standardise
> their definitions on this string type and derivatives, making the
> above division between syntax and dictionary invisible to users and
> programmers in their domain.
>
> * Proposal G: Proposal F', but with a different delimiter
>
> Ralf has indicated that he actually thinks Proposal F' is best, but
> only if the delimiters are not going to be confused with Python
> delimiters.  I interpret John W's position to be that he would not
> support such a change in delimiters as that would simply make CIF even
> more idiosyncratic.  Anyway, any such replacement delimiter would need
> to be multi-character, easy to type and unlikely to occur as the first
> characters in CIF1 datavalues.  We would also need to reduce the
> characterset of non-delimited CIF2 strings to exclude any such
> delimiters.  Ideas?
>
> * Null proposal: do nothing as we can't agree
>
> I think I could support Proposal Q as an acceptable fallback from F',
> and if somebody can find sensible delimiters for Proposal G that works
> for me as well.  The preferred treatment for backslash rich text for
> Proposals P,P' and Q will necessarily be semicolon-delimited strings.
>
> James.
> -- 
> T +61 (02) 9717 9907
> F +61 (02) 9717 3145
> M +61 (04) 0249 4148
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