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"I thought you had your vote and had decided not to support commas in
lists, but if it is still being discussed ..."
I have been holding off on a final declaration, given that the vote wasn't that definitive and John hasn't yet contributed. But, unless Brian and John both move to the commas + spaces option, the choice of this group is that spaces only can be used as a list item separator. That will be the syntax that we will move forward with.
Herbert: keep your current software versions around somewhere, because until COMCIFS formally puts the big tick in the box, the standard is not set in stone.
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Re: [ddlm-group] Space as a list item separator
- To: Group finalising DDLm and associated dictionaries <ddlm-group@iucr.org>
- Subject: Re: [ddlm-group] Space as a list item separator
- From: James Hester <jamesrhester@gmail.com>
- Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 09:53:14 +1100
- In-Reply-To: <alpine.BSF.2.00.0912011815020.52591@epsilon.pair.com>
- References: <C7398588.126B6%nick@csse.uwa.edu.au><84104.25546.qm@web87002.mail.ird.yahoo.com><alpine.BSF.2.00.0911300822020.56763@epsilon.pair.com><alpine.BSF.2.00.0911300835021.56763@epsilon.pair.com><279aad2a0911301433se2d145fi9ac2df69cd047583@mail.gmail.com><279aad2a0911302230v15316aadk9d27c252ce04bfc6@mail.gmail.com><279aad2a0911302252m58914467k7931449848c6c6e6@mail.gmail.com><4B154B02.6010703@mcmaster.ca><279aad2a0912011451w5286bc0elcfe303447e02ef17@mail.gmail.com><alpine.BSF.2.00.0912011815020.52591@epsilon.pair.com>
"I thought you had your vote and had decided not to support commas in
lists, but if it is still being discussed ..."
I have been holding off on a final declaration, given that the vote wasn't that definitive and John hasn't yet contributed. But, unless Brian and John both move to the commas + spaces option, the choice of this group is that spaces only can be used as a list item separator. That will be the syntax that we will move forward with.
Herbert: keep your current software versions around somewhere, because until COMCIFS formally puts the big tick in the box, the standard is not set in stone.
On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 10:24 AM, Herbert J. Bernstein <yaya@bernstein-plus-sons.com> wrote:
I am very sorry to hear that. In my shop, dealing with this one change will involve 1-3 person-months of recoding to make commas optional and
to introduce warning messages when they are encountered and in redoing dictionaries and test cases. What a pointless waste. I hope this
group will complete its work in the near future, so we can have some
chance of having something stable to work against.
=====================================================
Herbert J. Bernstein, Professor of Computer Science
Dowling College, Kramer Science Center, KSC 121
Idle Hour Blvd, Oakdale, NY, 11769
+1-631-244-3035
yaya@dowling.edu
=====================================================
On Wed, 2 Dec 2009, James Hester wrote:
Counting up the votes so far on the list delimiter question I get:
Space and comma: David, Herbert
Space only: Simon, Nick, James, Joe (?)
Agnostic: Brian
Unknown: John
It looks like the spaces have it, although I have perhaps over-interpreted
Joe's reply.
On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 3:57 AM, David Brown <idbrown@mcmaster.ca> wrote:
MY VOTE IS FOR 1 (SPACE AND COMMA) because commas are better
visually. Not a strong argument and I would not give my vote a
large weighting. I can live with 2 as well.
David
James Hester wrote:
Dear CIF2 people: the time has come to vote on the list item
separator issue. Firstly: as far as I know, nobody is against
space as a separator, so spaces will be possible list item
separators. Some may be against commas, so this vote is on
whether or not to allow commas.
To summarise the arguments:
1. In favour of both space and comma
- comma is used in some other non-CIF contexts as a list
delimiter
2. Against comma:
- A single type of separator makes the grammar simpler
- Space is used everywhere else in CIF as a separator
(consistency)
- Comma can then be used in non-delimited strings
Space only: Nick, James (Nick is here)
Comma and Space: ?
On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 5:30 PM, James Hester
<jamesrhester@gmail.com> wrote:
More specifically, CIF1.1 excludes square brackets
as the first character in a non-delimited string.
On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 9:33 AM, James Hester
<jamesrhester@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Herbert: as CIF 1.1 doesn't define
lists, I'm not sure why you suggest that
the example below is a valid tag.
On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 12:36 AM, Herbert
J. Bernstein
<yaya@bernstein-plus-sons.com> wrote:
Sorry something got lost in
the prior message. It
should have
read:
Dear Colleagues,
Back to the
question of
commas. If you
accept the
desirability of
having a CIF
1.5, commas in
lists become
very useful.
Someone with
a CIF 1.1 editor
will be able to
prepare a CIF
1.5 file for
many
useful cases by
doing all lists
with commas and
no embedded
blanks
as long as they
can make their
lists fit on
single lines.
In CIF 1.1
[[1,2,3],[4,5,6],[7,8,9]]
is a valid value
for a tag, but
[[1 2 3] [4 5 6]
[7 8 9]]
is not.
No, neither example is a valid CIF 1.1 tag. CIF 1.1
explicitly excludes brackets as the first character
of a non-delimited string.
Having the option of commas
in lists will help to smooth
the
transition for at least some
people.
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