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Re: [ddlm-group] Relationship asmong CIF2, STAR,CIF1 and Python. . . .. .

I respectfully disagree, but I will refrain from arguing
this particular point until we settle our goals, as which
point I suspect this discussion will become moot.
   -- Herbert

=====================================================
  Herbert J. Bernstein, Professor of Computer Science
    Dowling College, Kramer Science Center, KSC 121
         Idle Hour Blvd, Oakdale, NY, 11769

                  +1-631-244-3035
                  [email protected]
=====================================================

On Tue, 18 Jan 2011, James Hester wrote:

> Herbert asserts that the "process" of manipulating strings in a dREL
> method would be simpler and less error-prone if dREL string types and
> CIF "datavalue types" are strongly related.
>
> Strings originating from a CIF data file would already be in some
> uniform internal representation when they reach the dREL method, so
> the particular syntax that was used to input those strings is entirely
> irrelevant.  Likewise, the dREL parser has already converted any
> string literals in the dREL method into the same internal
> representation.  So there is no need for any "cross-translation"
> whatsoever.
>
> On Sun, Jan 16, 2011 at 12:35 AM, Herbert J. Bernstein
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Dear James,
>>
>> �But the entire point of the dREL method is to
>> generate strings to compare with or insert among
>> CIF data values, and that process is simplest
>> and least error prone if the repetoire of dREL
>> string types and of CIF data value types are
>> strongly related with a simple cross translation.
>>
>> �Regards,
>> � �Herbert
>>
>> =====================================================
>> �Herbert J. Bernstein, Professor of Computer Science
>> � Dowling College, Kramer Science Center, KSC 121
>> � � � �Idle Hour Blvd, Oakdale, NY, 11769
>>
>> � � � � � � � � +1-631-244-3035
>> � � � � � � � � [email protected]
>> =====================================================
>>
>> On Sat, 15 Jan 2011, James Hester wrote:
>>
>>> dREL strings and elides have nothing to do with CIF2 syntax. �They are
>>> dREL syntax. �A dREL method is just an ordinary string for the CIF2
>>> parser, and has no special status.
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 2:35 PM, Herbert J. Bernstein
>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Dear James,
>>>>
>>>> �Please reread the dREL string quoting specifications.
>>>> Please reread the dREL conventions on elides. �Let's
>>>> settle whether and in what way those items should
>>>> remain in the language.
>>>>
>>>> �Regards,
>>>> � �Herbert
>>>>
>>>> =====================================================
>>>> �Herbert J. Bernstein, Professor of Computer Science
>>>> � Dowling College, Kramer Science Center, KSC 121
>>>> � � � �Idle Hour Blvd, Oakdale, NY, 11769
>>>>
>>>> � � � � � � � � +1-631-244-3035
>>>> � � � � � � � � [email protected]
>>>> =====================================================
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, 15 Jan 2011, James Hester wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I welcome such analysis, which I believe is likely to lead to no more
>>>>> than a list of useful editorial changes to DDLm related to small
>>>>> changes in syntax since the DDLm draft document was produced.
>>>>>
>>>>> It is not trivial to produce a CIF2 version that is fundamentally
>>>>> unfriendly to DDLm and dREL, given that DDLm and dREL operate at a
>>>>> semantic level and we are producing a syntax document. �Only if our
>>>>> CIF2 syntax were to produce a different infoset (abstract
>>>>> datastructure) could some of the concepts in DDLm and dREL become
>>>>> poorly specified.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 11:02 AM, Bollinger, John C
>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Friday, January 14, 2011 2:30 PM, Herbert J. Bernstein wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> � I would suggest recalling that this CIF2 exercise began with
>>>>>>> tryin to define a DDLm/dREL-friendly version of CIF. �To the best
>>>>>>> of my knowledge, the current DDLm spec is at what is published
>>>>>>> on the IUCr web site under http://www.iucr.org/resources/cif/ddl/ddlm
>>>>>>> with draft documents from August 2008. �I propose that we all
>>>>>>> take the time to review those documents and make a conscious
>>>>>>> effort to decide if we wish to make use of them as a
>>>>>>> base for CIF2 or not. �They contain many points relevant
>>>>>>> to the current discussion.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is an eminently reasonable suggestion, and I have endeavored to
>>>>>> take
>>>>>> it. �I find I need more time to formulate the results of my analysis,
>>>>>> but
>>>>>> they do not lead me to the same conclusion that Herbert has reached,
>>>>>> that we
>>>>>> should start over from scratch. �However, we can, perhaps, consider
>>>>>> each of
>>>>>> the changes in our current draft, as Herbert prodded us to do, and
>>>>>> evaluate
>>>>>> them against this group's mandate and objectives. �We might now draw
>>>>>> different conclusions about some of them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I decline to work on this over the weekend, and Monday is a U.S.
>>>>>> holiday,
>>>>>> so it will be at least Tuesday before a I respond more fully.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> John
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> John C. Bollinger, Ph.D.
>>>>>> Department of Structural Biology
>>>>>> St. Jude Children's Research Hospital
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Email Disclaimer: �www.stjude.org/emaildisclaimer
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
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>
>
>
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