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Re: [ddlm-group] Relationship asmong CIF2, STAR,CIF1 and Python. . . .. .
- To: Group finalising DDLm and associated dictionaries <ddlm-group@iucr.org>
- Subject: Re: [ddlm-group] Relationship asmong CIF2, STAR,CIF1 and Python. . . .. .
- From: "Herbert J. Bernstein" <yaya@bernstein-plus-sons.com>
- Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2011 05:47:20 -0500 (EST)
- In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=wDadGUJasrxF72rm4pjEHQyLGvh6XrxCANqjs@mail.gmail.com>
- References: <AANLkTimdAavg2KCjPZTj1xDYXDQ1JLiQCkQb4snyBErZ@mail.gmail.com><8F77913624F7524AACD2A92EAF3BFA54166D7D1EB8@SJMEMXMBS11.stjude.sjcrh.local><85782.48834.qm@web87007.mail.ird.yahoo.com><AANLkTik2X=SKJyCKKqYJ7_g=hHCcPAOKYbiiJujKCz5s@mail.gmail.com><alpine.BSF.2.00.1101140527560.94749@epsilon.pair.com><AANLkTi=41X-+kcBgk=2Xd7sbO2GXHTCJ1bTAowO-+JcD@mail.gmail.com><alpine.BSF.2.00.1101141014210.46682@epsilon.pair.com><8F77913624F7524AACD2A92EAF3BFA54166D7D1EBB@SJMEMXMBS11.stjude.sjcrh.local><alpine.BSF.2.00.1101141448160.88944@epsilon.pair.com><8F77913624F7524AACD2A92EAF3BFA54166D7D1EBE@SJMEMXMBS11.stjude.sjcrh.local><AANLkTinnA2o5AAa1cx=oGdqiQQxGxYxAThkmqc2UiLAO@mail.gmail.com><alpine.BSF.2.00.1101142233240.68420@epsilon.pair.com><AANLkTimrWV-OFxRszzmFE5N=FamjPmtjbySCpoNPkGzD@mail.gmail.com><alpine.BSF.2.00.1101150832290.49291@epsilon.pair.com><AANLkTi=wDadGUJasrxF72rm4pjEHQyLGvh6XrxCANqjs@mail.gmail.com>
I respectfully disagree, but I will refrain from arguing this particular point until we settle our goals, as which point I suspect this discussion will become moot. -- Herbert ===================================================== Herbert J. Bernstein, Professor of Computer Science Dowling College, Kramer Science Center, KSC 121 Idle Hour Blvd, Oakdale, NY, 11769 +1-631-244-3035 yaya@dowling.edu ===================================================== On Tue, 18 Jan 2011, James Hester wrote: > Herbert asserts that the "process" of manipulating strings in a dREL > method would be simpler and less error-prone if dREL string types and > CIF "datavalue types" are strongly related. > > Strings originating from a CIF data file would already be in some > uniform internal representation when they reach the dREL method, so > the particular syntax that was used to input those strings is entirely > irrelevant. Likewise, the dREL parser has already converted any > string literals in the dREL method into the same internal > representation. So there is no need for any "cross-translation" > whatsoever. > > On Sun, Jan 16, 2011 at 12:35 AM, Herbert J. Bernstein > <yaya@bernstein-plus-sons.com> wrote: >> Dear James, >> >> But the entire point of the dREL method is to >> generate strings to compare with or insert among >> CIF data values, and that process is simplest >> and least error prone if the repetoire of dREL >> string types and of CIF data value types are >> strongly related with a simple cross translation. >> >> Regards, >> Herbert >> >> ===================================================== >> Herbert J. Bernstein, Professor of Computer Science >> Dowling College, Kramer Science Center, KSC 121 >> Idle Hour Blvd, Oakdale, NY, 11769 >> >> +1-631-244-3035 >> yaya@dowling.edu >> ===================================================== >> >> On Sat, 15 Jan 2011, James Hester wrote: >> >>> dREL strings and elides have nothing to do with CIF2 syntax. They are >>> dREL syntax. A dREL method is just an ordinary string for the CIF2 >>> parser, and has no special status. >>> >>> On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 2:35 PM, Herbert J. Bernstein >>> <yaya@bernstein-plus-sons.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> Dear James, >>>> >>>> Please reread the dREL string quoting specifications. >>>> Please reread the dREL conventions on elides. Let's >>>> settle whether and in what way those items should >>>> remain in the language. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Herbert >>>> >>>> ===================================================== >>>> Herbert J. Bernstein, Professor of Computer Science >>>> Dowling College, Kramer Science Center, KSC 121 >>>> Idle Hour Blvd, Oakdale, NY, 11769 >>>> >>>> +1-631-244-3035 >>>> yaya@dowling.edu >>>> ===================================================== >>>> >>>> On Sat, 15 Jan 2011, James Hester wrote: >>>> >>>>> I welcome such analysis, which I believe is likely to lead to no more >>>>> than a list of useful editorial changes to DDLm related to small >>>>> changes in syntax since the DDLm draft document was produced. >>>>> >>>>> It is not trivial to produce a CIF2 version that is fundamentally >>>>> unfriendly to DDLm and dREL, given that DDLm and dREL operate at a >>>>> semantic level and we are producing a syntax document. Only if our >>>>> CIF2 syntax were to produce a different infoset (abstract >>>>> datastructure) could some of the concepts in DDLm and dREL become >>>>> poorly specified. >>>>> >>>>> On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 11:02 AM, Bollinger, John C >>>>> <John.Bollinger@stjude.org> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> On Friday, January 14, 2011 2:30 PM, Herbert J. Bernstein wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I would suggest recalling that this CIF2 exercise began with >>>>>>> tryin to define a DDLm/dREL-friendly version of CIF. To the best >>>>>>> of my knowledge, the current DDLm spec is at what is published >>>>>>> on the IUCr web site under http://www.iucr.org/resources/cif/ddl/ddlm >>>>>>> with draft documents from August 2008. I propose that we all >>>>>>> take the time to review those documents and make a conscious >>>>>>> effort to decide if we wish to make use of them as a >>>>>>> base for CIF2 or not. They contain many points relevant >>>>>>> to the current discussion. >>>>>> >>>>>> This is an eminently reasonable suggestion, and I have endeavored to >>>>>> take >>>>>> it. I find I need more time to formulate the results of my analysis, >>>>>> but >>>>>> they do not lead me to the same conclusion that Herbert has reached, >>>>>> that we >>>>>> should start over from scratch. However, we can, perhaps, consider >>>>>> each of >>>>>> the changes in our current draft, as Herbert prodded us to do, and >>>>>> evaluate >>>>>> them against this group's mandate and objectives. We might now draw >>>>>> different conclusions about some of them. >>>>>> >>>>>> I decline to work on this over the weekend, and Monday is a U.S. >>>>>> holiday, >>>>>> so it will be at least Tuesday before a I respond more fully. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Regards, >>>>>> >>>>>> John >>>>>> -- >>>>>> John C. Bollinger, Ph.D. >>>>>> Department of Structural Biology >>>>>> St. Jude Children's Research Hospital >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Email Disclaimer: www.stjude.org/emaildisclaimer >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> ddlm-group mailing list >>>>>> ddlm-group@iucr.org >>>>>> http://scripts.iucr.org/mailman/listinfo/ddlm-group >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> T +61 (02) 9717 9907 >>>>> F +61 (02) 9717 3145 >>>>> M +61 (04) 0249 4148 >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> ddlm-group mailing list >>>>> ddlm-group@iucr.org >>>>> http://scripts.iucr.org/mailman/listinfo/ddlm-group >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> ddlm-group mailing list >>>> ddlm-group@iucr.org >>>> http://scripts.iucr.org/mailman/listinfo/ddlm-group >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> T +61 (02) 9717 9907 >>> F +61 (02) 9717 3145 >>> M +61 (04) 0249 4148 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> ddlm-group mailing list >>> ddlm-group@iucr.org >>> http://scripts.iucr.org/mailman/listinfo/ddlm-group >> >> _______________________________________________ >> ddlm-group mailing list >> ddlm-group@iucr.org >> http://scripts.iucr.org/mailman/listinfo/ddlm-group >> >> > > > > -- > T +61 (02) 9717 9907 > F +61 (02) 9717 3145 > M +61 (04) 0249 4148 > _______________________________________________ > ddlm-group mailing list > ddlm-group@iucr.org > http://scripts.iucr.org/mailman/listinfo/ddlm-group >
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- References:
- [ddlm-group] Simon's elide proposal (James Hester)
- Re: [ddlm-group] Relationship asmong CIF2, STAR,CIF1 and Python. . (Bollinger, John C)
- Re: [ddlm-group] Relationship asmong CIF2, STAR,CIF1 and Python. . (SIMON WESTRIP)
- Re: [ddlm-group] Relationship asmong CIF2, STAR, CIF1 and Python. . (James Hester)
- Re: [ddlm-group] Relationship asmong CIF2, STAR, CIF1 and Python. . (Herbert J. Bernstein)
- Re: [ddlm-group] Relationship asmong CIF2, STAR, CIF1 and Python. . (James Hester)
- Re: [ddlm-group] Relationship asmong CIF2, STAR, CIF1 and Python. . (Herbert J. Bernstein)
- Re: [ddlm-group] Relationship asmong CIF2, STAR,CIF1 and Python. . . . (Bollinger, John C)
- Re: [ddlm-group] Relationship asmong CIF2, STAR,CIF1 and Python. . . . (Herbert J. Bernstein)
- Re: [ddlm-group] Relationship asmong CIF2, STAR,CIF1 and Python. . . .. . (Bollinger, John C)
- Re: [ddlm-group] Relationship asmong CIF2, STAR,CIF1 and Python. . . .. . (James Hester)
- Re: [ddlm-group] Relationship asmong CIF2, STAR,CIF1 and Python. . . .. . (Herbert J. Bernstein)
- Re: [ddlm-group] Relationship asmong CIF2, STAR,CIF1 and Python. . . .. . (James Hester)
- Re: [ddlm-group] Relationship asmong CIF2, STAR,CIF1 and Python. . . .. . (Herbert J. Bernstein)
- Re: [ddlm-group] Relationship asmong CIF2, STAR,CIF1 and Python. . . .. . (James Hester)
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