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Re: [ddlm-group] Wrapping up the elide discussion

Dear James,

   I think it would be more appropriate to put Ralf's original
proposal as well as F  before COMCIFS.  As I have stated
several times, I prefer Ralf's original proposal to F.
While either is sufficient to the limited purpose, I think
full Python compatability for the treble quote construct
makes the most sense long term.

   Regards,
     Herbert

=====================================================
  Herbert J. Bernstein, Professor of Computer Science
    Dowling College, Kramer Science Center, KSC 121
         Idle Hour Blvd, Oakdale, NY, 11769

                  +1-631-244-3035
                  [email protected]
=====================================================

On Wed, 16 Feb 2011, James Hester wrote:

> I believe that proposal F has the most support in this group and among
> the voting COMCIFS members.  I reach this conclusion by assuming that
> Ralf will prefer F and Brian and myself prefer F'.
>
> I will shortly post a draft of the proposed change for technical
> comment prior to requesting a COMCIFS vote.
>
> James
>
> On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 1:36 AM, John Westbrook <[email protected]> wrote:
>> I concur with Herbert and opt for the option F of those under consideration.
>>
>> I would appreciate an example of how to embed a triple quoted text section
>> verbatim within a triple quoted section. � This is an issue for dictionary
>> examples. �Does the proposal include both """ and ''' so that the string
>> """'''my verbatim text'''""" is treated as '''my verbatim text'''?
>>
>> John
>>
>>
>> On 1/30/11 9:00 AM, Herbert J. Bernstein wrote:
>>> If the choice is only between F and F', I vote for F.
>>>
>>> To clarify:
>>>
>>> James' F' proposal was:
>>>
>>> "The datavalue is obtained from the triple-quoted string in two steps:
>>> (1) All instances of<backslash><eol> �are removed from the string
>>> where the<backslash> �is not preceded by another<backslash>
>>> (2) All other instances of<backslash><eol> �are replaced with<eol>
>>>
>>> "This means that a sequence of n backslashes followed by newline is
>>> replaced by a sequence of n-1 backslashes followed by newline, except
>>> if there is one backslash before the newline, in which case both
>>> newline and backslash are removed. �Triple quote sequences are elided
>>> by inserting a<backslash><eol> �sequence between<delimiter>
>>> characters to break up the triple delimiter sequence. �Note also that
>>> backslash has no special meaning if not in a sequence finishing with
>>> <eol>."
>>>
>>> Simon's F proposal was
>>>
>>> "If you're looking to base CIF extensions on established mechanisms,
>>> why not adopt
>>> the minimal \(newline) and \\ escape sequences, which in essence are
>>> the same as
>>> the established CIF line-folding protocol (just dropping the initial
>>> \ following the opening
>>> delimiter and formalising the protocol as an inherent part of the
>>> spec). Afterall, I beleive you
>>> have already been using it, or at least interpreted it, as a means to
>>> escape 'semicolon delimiters' within
>>> semicolon-delimited values (I seem to recall discussions that
>>> identified an issue with the published 'trip tests'
>>> relating to line folding)."
>>>
>>> Under Simon's F proposal
>>>
>>> """\\\
>>> """
>>>
>>> would mean one backslash (no trailing new line)
>>>
>>> and
>>>
>>> """\\
>>> """
>>>
>>> would mean one backslash followed by a newline
>>>
>>> and
>>>
>>> """\\
>>>
>>> """
>>>
>>> would mean one backslash followed by two newlines
>>>
>>> while under James' F'
>>>
>>> """\\\
>>> """
>>>
>>> would mean two backslashes (no trailing newline)
>>>
>>> and
>>>
>>> """\\
>>> """
>>>
>>> would mean one backslash (no trailing newline)
>>>
>>> and
>>>
>>> """\\
>>>
>>> """
>>>
>>> would mean one backslash followed by a newline
>>>
>>>
>>> While either proposal could, of course, be implemented, to me,
>>> Simon's proposal is seems complete and more consistent with
>>> common programming practice in handling backslash elides
>>>
>>> I agree with James that it is time to make a choice and move
>>> on. �I just hope, if we cannot follow complete Python
>>> practice, we at least take F, the proposal that is more
>>> consistent with Python practice.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> At 7:57 AM -0500 1/30/11, Frances C. Bernstein wrote:
>>>> Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 23:40:58 +1100
>>>> From: James Hester<[email protected]>
>>>> Reply-To: Group finalising DDLm and associated dictionaries
>>>> � � �<[email protected]>
>>>> To: ddlm-group<[email protected]>
>>>> Subject: [ddlm-group] Wrapping up the elide discussion
>>>>
>>>> Dear DDLm-ers,
>>>>
>>>> This latest round of discussion started as an attempt to find
>>>> consensus on an elide system for CIF2 triple-quoted strings. �I have
>>>> asked everybody to contribute their preferences, and now that John W
>>>> and Ralf have replied to me off-list regarding their preferences for
>>>> elides, we are in a position to read the tea-leaves and determine a
>>>> consensus solution. �I can report that Ralf, while preferring the full
>>>> Python approach (proposal P) will accept a solution that allows
>>>> arbitrary strings to be included in a CIF file. �John W prefers a
>>>> solution involving minimal changes to current syntax.
>>>>
>>>> So our top preferences are as follows:
>>>>
>>>> Herbert: P, otherwise F with conditions
>>>> Brian: F' and E, P least preferable
>>>> James: F' and F, P unacceptable
>>>> Ralf: P best, A,B,E,F,F' OK
>>>> John W: A, B or F' (my interpretation of minimal changes - John feel
>>>> free to say otherwise)
>>>>
>>>> It appears that all but Herbert would be prepared to vote for F', and
>>>> even Herbert is prepared to consider F. �No other proposal reaches a
>>>> similar level of acceptance among voting members (and I note that
>>>> non-voting members are also strongly in the F/F' camp). �I would
>>>> therefore like to focus discussion on F' and F as the two choices most
>>>> likely to succeed.
>>>>
>>>> The single point in favour of F' as opposed to F is that the sequence
>>>> <backslash><backslash> �has no meaning, which makes it simpler to
>>>> include backslash-rich text (eg LaTeX or RTF). �This continues to be
>>>> of particular concern among our journal colleagues.
>>>>
>>>> The single point that some consider to be in favour of F relative to
>>>> F' is that it is a proper subset of Python syntax.
>>>>
>>>> If no consensus can be achieved following a small period for comment
>>>> within this group, I propose voting between F or F', followed by a
>>>> formal vote at COMCIFS level to accept the resulting elide system as
>>>> an amendment to the current CIF2 standard.
>>>>
>>>> James.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> T +61 (02) 9717 9907
>>>> F +61 (02) 9717 3145
>>>> M +61 (04) 0249 4148
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>>>> http://scripts.iucr.org/mailman/listinfo/ddlm-group
>>>
>>
>> --
>> ******************************************************************
>> � John Westbrook, Ph.D.
>> � Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey
>> � Department of Chemistry and Chemical Biology
>> � 610 Taylor Road
>> � Piscataway, NJ 08854-8087
>> � e-mail: [email protected]
>> � Ph: �(732) 445-4290 �Fax: (732) 445-4320
>> ******************************************************************
>> _______________________________________________
>> ddlm-group mailing list
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>> http://scripts.iucr.org/mailman/listinfo/ddlm-group
>>
>
>
>
> -- 
> T +61 (02) 9717 9907
> F +61 (02) 9717 3145
> M +61 (04) 0249 4148
> _______________________________________________
> ddlm-group mailing list
> [email protected]
> http://scripts.iucr.org/mailman/listinfo/ddlm-group
>
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