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Re: [ddlm-group] Relationship asmong CIF2, STAR,CIF1 and Python. .

Why not?  It is almost that right now.


At 11:08 PM +0000 1/15/11, SIMON WESTRIP wrote:
>True - but I can't see dREL becoming pyREL at this stage?
>
>
>
>From: Herbert J. Bernstein <yaya@bernstein-plus-sons.com>
>To: Group finalising DDLm and associated dictionaries <ddlm-group@iucr.org>
>Sent: Saturday, 15 January, 2011 22:57:17
>Subject: Re: [ddlm-group] Relationship asmong CIF2, STAR, CIF1 and Python. .
>
>Dear Simon,
>
>   But dREL already shares much of Python syntax and data structures,
>but, being significantly mutated, lacks the software support and
>documentation that Python has.  Anyone who has to work with the
>methods in a DDLm dictionary would be much better off if we
>simply made Python work with DDLm.  We would gain large libraries
>of pre-written utilities, tools to test code fragments interactively,
>and a lot more time to do science or whatever we are actually
>funded to do.
>
>   Regards,
>     Herbert
>
>
>
>At 10:35 PM +0000 1/15/11, SIMON WESTRIP wrote:
>>As far as I can see, parsing DDLm into an object stucture is fairly
>>uncomplicated;
>>the hurdle is parsing the dREL script as a method of the object.
>>Unless working with python, I'm not sure that adopting python syntax
>>for DDLm/CIF
>>is of any great benefit; likewise for dREL.
>>
>>That said, I have yet to actually do anything with DDLm, let alone
>>dREL, so I may be
>>well off the mark. But even if this is the case, I suspect there
>>will be non-python programmers out
>>there that have cause to work with CIF and similarly will see no
>>obvious benefit in
>>CIF sharing python syntax (especially if it only adopts it for one
>>set of delimiters at the
>>data-source level).
>>
>>Cheers
>>
>>Simon
>>
>>
>>
>>From: Herbert J. Bernstein 
>><<mailto:yaya@bernstein-plus-sons.com>yaya@bernstein-plus-sons.com>
>>To: Group finalising DDLm and associated dictionaries 
>><<mailto:ddlm-group@iucr.org>ddlm-group@iucr.org>
>>Sent: Saturday, 15 January, 2011 21:16:59
>>Subject: Re: [ddlm-group] Relationship asmong CIF2, STAR, CIF1 and Python. .
>>
>>At 12:43 PM +0000 1/15/11, Brian McMahon wrote:
>>>It might be worth remarking (again) that dREL is being developed as a
>>>canonical methods description language, and not necessarily the runtime
>>>methods evaluator of choice for future applications. It may be that in
>>>practice future methods are initially developed and most frequently
>>>executed directly in Python or some other language. As I see it, the
>>>goal of CIF and DDL evolution is not to exclude such a possibility.
>>
>>If we are trying to be Python friendly and much of dREL is derived
>>from a Jython implementation, I don't understand why we are not
>>conforming dREL, DDLm and CIF2 to Python conventions as closely as
>>possible.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>At 12:43 PM +0000 1/15/11, Brian McMahon wrote:
>>>On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 05:35:21PM -0600, Bollinger, John C wrote:
>>>>
>>>>   (snip)
>>>>
>>>>   CIF2 <=> CIF1:
>>>>   To the greatest extent feasible, well-formed CIF1 documents should be
>>>>   well-formed CIF2 documents (modulo a CIF version identification
>>>>   signature) having the same meaning.
>>>
>>>Agreed.
>>>
>>>>   CIF2 <=> STAR:
>>>>   Inasmuch as CIF1 is derived from STAR, I think it appropriate for CIF2
>>>>   to look first to STAR, including its post-CIF1 development, for new
>>>>   features it may need.  Even if CIF2 is not 100% compatible with STAR, it
>>>>   is worthwhile to avoid diverging without compelling reason.
>>>
>>>Agreed
>>>
>>>>   CIF2 <=> Python:
>>>>   I see no particular reason for any formal relationship here beyond
>>>>   Python's role as the indirect inspiration for CIF2's new
>>>>   triple-quote syntax.  I am wary of the idea of tying CIF tightly to
>>>>   a particular language.  CIF2 documents are not and never will be
>>>>   Python programs.  I could imagine embedding Python in CIF or vise
>  >>>  versa, but I have seen no evidence to suggest that greater similarity
>>>>   between the two languages' syntax and semantics would benefit efforts
>>>>   such as those.
>>>
>>>Agreed. As I mention elsewhere, there is a greater influence on the
>>>prototype dREL (arising from the initial Jython implementation), and
>>>the list and table data types doubtless arise from that also.
>>>
>>>It might be worth remarking (again) that dREL is being developed as a
>>>canonical methods description language, and not necessarily the runtime
>>>methods evaluator of choice for future applications. It may be that in
>>   >practice future methods are initially developed and most frequently
>>>executed directly in Python or some other language. As I see it, the
>>>goal of CIF and DDL evolution is not to exclude such a possibility.
>>>
>>>Regards
>>>Brian
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>ddlm-group mailing list
>>><mailto:<mailto:ddlm-group@iucr.org>ddlm-group@iucr.org><mailto:ddlm-group@iucr.org>ddlm-group@iucr.org
>>><<http://scripts.iucr.org/mailman/listinfo/ddlm-group>http://scripts.iucr.org/mailman/listinfo/ddlm-group><http://scripts.iucr.org/mailman/listinfo/ddlm-group>http://scripts.iucr.org/mailman/listinfo/ddlm-group
>>
>>
>>--
>>=====================================================
>>   Herbert J. Bernstein, Professor of Computer Science
>>     Dowling College, Kramer Science Center, KSC 121
>>         Idle Hour Blvd, Oakdale, NY, 11769
>>
>>                   +1-631-244-3035
>> 
>><mailto:<mailto:yaya@dowling.edu>yaya@dowling.edu><mailto:yaya@dowling.edu>yaya@dowling.edu
>>=====================================================
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>>ddlm-group mailing list
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>
>--
>=====================================================
>   Herbert J. Bernstein, Professor of Computer Science
>     Dowling College, Kramer Science Center, KSC 121
>         Idle Hour Blvd, Oakdale, NY, 11769
>
>                   +1-631-244-3035
>                   <mailto:yaya@dowling.edu>yaya@dowling.edu
>=====================================================
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-- 
=====================================================
  Herbert J. Bernstein, Professor of Computer Science
    Dowling College, Kramer Science Center, KSC 121
         Idle Hour Blvd, Oakdale, NY, 11769

                  +1-631-244-3035
                  yaya@dowling.edu
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