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From: Herbert J. Bernstein <yaya@bernstein-plus-sons.com>
To: Group finalising DDLm and associated dictionaries <ddlm-group@iucr.org>
Sent: Monday, 28 February, 2011 21:13:45
Subject: Re: [ddlm-group] Fwd: Fwd: Searching for a compromise on eliding. . . .
Dear Simon,
The G example is no more or less likely than an F example. Whatever
choice of delimiters we make, the primary purpose is to be able to quote
chunk of CIF within such strings. Once we start using any multi-line
delimiter for this purpose, then that delimiter will need to be well-
handled in quoting chunks of CIF with that delimiter included. That
is one more reason to prefer P, P-prime, F or GP to F' or G.
Regards,
Herbert
At 8:26 PM +0000 2/28/11, SIMON WESTRIP wrote:
>Dear Herbert,
>
>Your G example is highly unlikely to be necessary in practice, which
>is one reason I've started
>to see the merits of alternative delimters that don't share a
>character with other delimiters and that are
>unlikely to form part of a CIF data value.
>
>Cheers
>
>Simon
>
>
>
>From: Herbert J. Bernstein <yaya@bernstein-plus-sons.com>
>To: Group finalising DDLm and associated dictionaries <ddlm-group@iucr.org>
>Sent: Monday, 28 February, 2011 19:34:48
>Subject: Re: [ddlm-group] Fwd: Fwd: Searching for a compromise on
>eliding. . . .
>
>The prudent thing to do is to double every backslash you want taken
>verbatim, whether it is at the end of a line or not. One nice aspect
>of P and P-prime is that you get in the habit of eliding the quote
>marks as well, as in
>
>"""This is an example of \"\"\"treble quoting\"\"\""""
>
>even though
>
>"""This is an example of \"""treble quoting""\""""
>
>is sufficient. It keeps your visual clues more local. I would suggest
>that those considering the merits of P and P-prime versus G and F', consider
>that in GP, the above would appear in F' as
>
>"""This is an example of ""\
>"treble quoting""\
>"\
>"""
>
>and the similar G statement would be
>
>``This is an example of `\
>`G quoting`\
>`\
>``
>
>which seems somewhat less clear than the more Pythonesque P, P-prime and
>F one-liners
>
>
>
>At 12:29 PM -0600 2/28/11, Bollinger, John C wrote:
>>On Monday, February 28, 2011 12:16 PM, I wrote:
>>
>>>F and GP would require backslash doubling when a literal backslash
>>>appears at the end of a line, and also when a literal
>>>double-backslash appears anywhere (in which case both backslashes
>>>would need to be doubled, \\ -> \\\\).
>>
>>Correction: F and GP would require backslash doubling when a literal
>>backslash appears at the end of a line. In addition, given any
>>sequence of n + 1 literal backslashes (n >= 0), the first n of them
>>must be doubled, but doubling the last is optional unless it appears
>>at the end of the line.
>>
>>John
>>
>>--
>>John C. Bollinger, Ph.D.
>>Department of Structural Biology
>>St. Jude Children's Research Hospital
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Email Disclaimer:
>><http://www.stjude.org/emaildisclaimer>www.stjude.org/emaildisclaimer
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>ddlm-group mailing list
>><mailto:ddlm-group@iucr.org>ddlm-group@iucr.org
>><http://scripts.iucr.org/mailman/listinfo/ddlm-group>http://scripts.iucr.org/mailman/listinfo/ddlm-group
>
>
>--
>=====================================================
> Herbert J. Bernstein, Professor of Computer Science
> Dowling College, Kramer Science Center, KSC 121
> Idle Hour Blvd, Oakdale, NY, 11769
>
> +1-631-244-3035
> <mailto:yaya@dowling.edu>yaya@dowling.edu
>=====================================================
>_______________________________________________
>ddlm-group mailing list
><mailto:ddlm-group@iucr.org>ddlm-group@iucr.org
><http://scripts.iucr.org/mailman/listinfo/ddlm-group>http://scripts.iucr.org/mailman/listinfo/ddlm-group
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>ddlm-group mailing list
>ddlm-group@iucr.org
>http://scripts.iucr.org/mailman/listinfo/ddlm-group
--
=====================================================
Herbert J. Bernstein, Professor of Computer Science
Dowling College, Kramer Science Center, KSC 121
Idle Hour Blvd, Oakdale, NY, 11769
+1-631-244-3035
yaya@dowling.edu
=====================================================
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Re: [ddlm-group] Fwd: Fwd: Searching for a compromise on eliding. .. .
- To: Group finalising DDLm and associated dictionaries <ddlm-group@iucr.org>
- Subject: Re: [ddlm-group] Fwd: Fwd: Searching for a compromise on eliding. .. .
- From: SIMON WESTRIP <simonwestrip@btinternet.com>
- Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2011 22:23:20 +0000 (GMT)
- In-Reply-To: <a06240803c991b80831ec@[192.168.27.101]>
- References: <AANLkTi=bEDjCpJgyuB07q1FBFZjA_jbG=4jgLsXEvw4g@mail.gmail.com><AANLkTimXzT1UDfmPAqpSStGiAzhtneCmtfRHbSD4B1D4@mail.gmail.com><201102250451.p1P4pJG4022500@cci.lbl.gov><AANLkTim51YEQDeZ7yN7RSkySgo1NiUhRm4YuJBv8nxpc@mail.gmail.com><a06240812c990a841ef34@192.168.2.101><AANLkTinH2BQzEjj9L9sjsci1c=RrZqk3O0wtfnDGg+6e@mail.gmail.com><alpine.BSF.2.00.1102280731330.93349@epsilon.pair.com><AANLkTimeuGsbsPUHRkuk7Bw7yn66JD1eQ0aAYLMiSoED@mail.gmail.com><alpine.BSF.2.00.1102280834120.93349@epsilon.pair.com><20110228151159.GB18749@emerald.iucr.org><902266.15167.qm@web87003.mail.ird.yahoo.com><8F77913624F7524AACD2A92EAF3BFA54168ECD35C3@SJMEMXMBS11.stjude.sjcrh.local><8F77913624F7524AACD2A92EAF3BFA54168ECD35C4@SJMEMXMBS11.stjude.sjcrh.local> <a06240802c991a6861788@[192.168.27.101]><800699.64267.qm@web87001.mail.ird.yahoo.com><a06240803c991b80831ec@[192.168.27.101]>
True, the "G example is no more or less likely than an F example", but
the need to use the escape sequences provided by G or F is far less likely than the
need to use the escape sequences required by P or P'.
I also think that "quoting chunks of CIF with that delimiter included" is an unlikely
scenario, relative to the use of CIF to create those chunks in the first place.
In general, by introducing P or P', we would be changing markedly how data are to be
represented in a CIF, which forces me to re-evaluate the relationship between CIF1 and CIF2.
A change of delimiter, along with F or F', would seem far less disruptive.
Cheers
Simon
the need to use the escape sequences provided by G or F is far less likely than the
need to use the escape sequences required by P or P'.
I also think that "quoting chunks of CIF with that delimiter included" is an unlikely
scenario, relative to the use of CIF to create those chunks in the first place.
In general, by introducing P or P', we would be changing markedly how data are to be
represented in a CIF, which forces me to re-evaluate the relationship between CIF1 and CIF2.
A change of delimiter, along with F or F', would seem far less disruptive.
Cheers
Simon
From: Herbert J. Bernstein <yaya@bernstein-plus-sons.com>
To: Group finalising DDLm and associated dictionaries <ddlm-group@iucr.org>
Sent: Monday, 28 February, 2011 21:13:45
Subject: Re: [ddlm-group] Fwd: Fwd: Searching for a compromise on eliding. . . .
Dear Simon,
The G example is no more or less likely than an F example. Whatever
choice of delimiters we make, the primary purpose is to be able to quote
chunk of CIF within such strings. Once we start using any multi-line
delimiter for this purpose, then that delimiter will need to be well-
handled in quoting chunks of CIF with that delimiter included. That
is one more reason to prefer P, P-prime, F or GP to F' or G.
Regards,
Herbert
At 8:26 PM +0000 2/28/11, SIMON WESTRIP wrote:
>Dear Herbert,
>
>Your G example is highly unlikely to be necessary in practice, which
>is one reason I've started
>to see the merits of alternative delimters that don't share a
>character with other delimiters and that are
>unlikely to form part of a CIF data value.
>
>Cheers
>
>Simon
>
>
>
>From: Herbert J. Bernstein <yaya@bernstein-plus-sons.com>
>To: Group finalising DDLm and associated dictionaries <ddlm-group@iucr.org>
>Sent: Monday, 28 February, 2011 19:34:48
>Subject: Re: [ddlm-group] Fwd: Fwd: Searching for a compromise on
>eliding. . . .
>
>The prudent thing to do is to double every backslash you want taken
>verbatim, whether it is at the end of a line or not. One nice aspect
>of P and P-prime is that you get in the habit of eliding the quote
>marks as well, as in
>
>"""This is an example of \"\"\"treble quoting\"\"\""""
>
>even though
>
>"""This is an example of \"""treble quoting""\""""
>
>is sufficient. It keeps your visual clues more local. I would suggest
>that those considering the merits of P and P-prime versus G and F', consider
>that in GP, the above would appear in F' as
>
>"""This is an example of ""\
>"treble quoting""\
>"\
>"""
>
>and the similar G statement would be
>
>``This is an example of `\
>`G quoting`\
>`\
>``
>
>which seems somewhat less clear than the more Pythonesque P, P-prime and
>F one-liners
>
>
>
>At 12:29 PM -0600 2/28/11, Bollinger, John C wrote:
>>On Monday, February 28, 2011 12:16 PM, I wrote:
>>
>>>F and GP would require backslash doubling when a literal backslash
>>>appears at the end of a line, and also when a literal
>>>double-backslash appears anywhere (in which case both backslashes
>>>would need to be doubled, \\ -> \\\\).
>>
>>Correction: F and GP would require backslash doubling when a literal
>>backslash appears at the end of a line. In addition, given any
>>sequence of n + 1 literal backslashes (n >= 0), the first n of them
>>must be doubled, but doubling the last is optional unless it appears
>>at the end of the line.
>>
>>John
>>
>>--
>>John C. Bollinger, Ph.D.
>>Department of Structural Biology
>>St. Jude Children's Research Hospital
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Email Disclaimer:
>><http://www.stjude.org/emaildisclaimer>www.stjude.org/emaildisclaimer
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>ddlm-group mailing list
>><mailto:ddlm-group@iucr.org>ddlm-group@iucr.org
>><http://scripts.iucr.org/mailman/listinfo/ddlm-group>http://scripts.iucr.org/mailman/listinfo/ddlm-group
>
>
>--
>=====================================================
> Herbert J. Bernstein, Professor of Computer Science
> Dowling College, Kramer Science Center, KSC 121
> Idle Hour Blvd, Oakdale, NY, 11769
>
> +1-631-244-3035
> <mailto:yaya@dowling.edu>yaya@dowling.edu
>=====================================================
>_______________________________________________
>ddlm-group mailing list
><mailto:ddlm-group@iucr.org>ddlm-group@iucr.org
><http://scripts.iucr.org/mailman/listinfo/ddlm-group>http://scripts.iucr.org/mailman/listinfo/ddlm-group
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>ddlm-group mailing list
>ddlm-group@iucr.org
>http://scripts.iucr.org/mailman/listinfo/ddlm-group
--
=====================================================
Herbert J. Bernstein, Professor of Computer Science
Dowling College, Kramer Science Center, KSC 121
Idle Hour Blvd, Oakdale, NY, 11769
+1-631-244-3035
yaya@dowling.edu
=====================================================
_______________________________________________
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ddlm-group@iucr.org
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