Discussion List Archives

[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]

RE: Ambiguity in atom_site.disorder_group value -1

 

Dear Group,

In response to Brian’s questions:

 

  1. How did the authors produce their “tidy” Fig. 1?

I expect that it was semi-manually.  To prepare such a figure myself, I would probably generate one cell’s worth of the ordered parts according to the full symmetry, then generate selected symmetry equivalents of the disordered part as seemed good to me, then fill out the diagram by applying (only) lattice translations.

 

(2) Is the selected pairing purely a rendering choice?

Yes and No.  There are some combinations that cannot appear in the same pocket – purple with turquoise, green with orange, and, to my eye, the “nose to nose” purple and green combination.  These combinations are not physically possible in any one pocket, and for that reason I would avoid rendering such pairs in a diagram aimed at de-emphasizing the details of the disorder.  As a matter of structure interpretation, I would guess that purple is usually paired with orange, and green with turquoise, “nose to shoulder”.  It is likely, however, that some pockets contain the “shoulder to shoulder” orange and turquoise combination.  But it is chemical and thermodynamic reasoning that yields those restrictions and predictions, not crystallographic considerations.  The crystallographic data tell us only about the average over all the pockets.

In preparing such a figure, I would be making choices aimed at (a) conveying the relevant structural details well, (b) making the figure easy for the viewer to understand, and a bit (c) not requiring extraordinary effort for me to prepare.  As such, for a packing diagram of that particular structure, I would probably choose either the purple / orange pair or the green / turquoise, and render that one choice in every pocket.  Or if I wanted to emphasize the solvent disorder instead of deemphasizing it, then I might render *all* the symmetry equivalents in every pocket.

 

(3) … which leads me to my third question, aimed at the crystallographers on the list. Are there refinement strategies (in SHELX or other software) that allow you to constrain the local symmetries at different locations? I.e. in my terminology, if the pocket at the centre of the unit cell contains “nose-to-nose” molecules, can you constrain the neighbouring pockets to be “shoulder-to-shoulder”?

Not really.

You could structure the model so that it had such an appearance when symmetry is not taken into account.  Doing so correctly would involve a bunch of constraints on coordinates and thermal parameters of the disordered sites because there is in truth only one independent set of acetonitrile atom site parameters.  But that would serve only appearances, and only if one did not look too deeply.  It would not be physically meaningful. One particular choice of such local symmetry arrangements cannot be distinguished crystallographically from others.

 

Would you even want to be able to do this?

Generally, no, I would not have any particular desire to be able to do that as part of structure refinement.  To the extent that it is possible to separate structure refinement from structure interpretation, I put matters such as the contents of individual pockets in the latter category.  Also, I would expect CHECKCIF to complain – with good reason -- about a CIF presenting a model containing non-unique atom sites, and as a reviewer I would probably request that the deposited CIF contain only a unique set of atom sites.

 

Are there any experimental features in the diffraction images that would give you some clue as to the distribution of those orientations?

Diffraction signals yield information about the average atomic arrangement over the whole crystal.  Short-range correlations involving specific disordered orientations yield diffuse scattering, which is often observable in x-ray images for disordered structures, but interpreting the diffuse scattering it in terms of specific correlations is a hard problem.

Alternatively, it sometimes happens that a structure is modeled as disordered when really the space group is wrong, the crystal was twinned, the structure is modulated, or a combination of those.  The diffraction images might provide hints in the form of worse agreement of some classes of symmetry equivalent reflections, unexpectedly high intensity of systematically absent reflections, or satellite reflections.

 

I would guess that cases like this are fairly rare – energetically the different orientations within the pocket must be very similar, but perhaps there are weak non-bonding interactions that do bias particular combinations. Might every pocket contain a “nose-to-shoulder” arrangement?

Disordered solvent is pretty common.  Disorder about symmetry elements is uncommon, but I wouldn’t say rare.  The chosen example is very unusual, however, in having pockets where disordered symmetry equivalents pair up, such that one must interpret each pocket as having molecules at two of four symmetry-equivalent sites rather than just one of two sites.

Conceivably, yes, it might be that every pocket contains a “nose-to-shoulder” arrangement (selected randomly from two available alternatives).  If we accept the choice of space group then the diffraction experiment cannot say otherwise.  Thermodynamically, however, it seems likely that some proportion of the sites have “shoulder to shoulder”.  If that were the case, and also there were no “nose to nose” arrangements, then that would imply that the purple and green orientations are less frequently occupied than the orange and turquoise.  That may seem counter-intuitive, but it is not inconsistent with the model, because the model describes only the average population of all of those orientations.

 

Best regards,


John

 

 

From: coreDMG <coredmg-bounces@iucr.org> On Behalf Of Brian McMahon via coreDMG
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2022 6:03 AM
To: coredmg@iucr.org
Cc: Brian McMahon <bm@iucr.org>
Subject: Re: Ambiguity in atom_site.disorder_group value -1

 

Caution: External Sender. Do not open unless you know the content is safe.

 

On 20/10/2022 00:01, Robert Hanson via coreDMG wrote:

Maybe more to the point, here. My query is really not about documentation language. What I'm interested in is the way the -1 value should be interpreted. ...

 

What I would be interested in is some way in the CIF to be able to describe this "localness" of the disorder. That, for example, the results of symop 1 and symop 2 are paired. And, likewise, in this case I presented, symops paired as [1,2], [3,4], [5,6], and [7,8]. Wouldn't this be useful information?

 

Perhaps something like:

 

loop_

_local_disorder_id

_local_disorder_assembly  # matches atom_site_disorder_assembly

_local_disorder_group  # matches atom_site_disorder_group

_local_disorder_assembly_symmetry_operation_set   #matches list of space_group_symop_id

1 A -1 1,2

2 A -1 3,4

3 A -1 5,6

4 A -1 7,8

...

Would that be a reasonable feature request?

 

Bob

 

I often find it difficult to understand all the ramifications of a discussion such as this purely in the abstract, so I looked for a real-world example to see how this is currently treated in the literature. The example I have found was published in Acta Cryst. E: https://journals.iucr.org/e/issues/2022/11/00/jy2022/

The ATOM_SITE loop for this structure appears in the CIF as

loop_

    _atom_site_type_symbol

    _atom_site_label

    _atom_site_fract_x

    _atom_site_fract_y

    _atom_site_fract_z

    _atom_site_U_iso_or_equiv

    _atom_site_adp_type

    _atom_site_calc_flag

    _atom_site_occupancy

    _atom_site_disorder_assembly

    _atom_site_disorder_group

    Ni Ni1 0.500000 0.11950(2) 0.250000 0.01509(10) Uani d 1 . .

    N N1 0.54965(7) 0.11278(9) 0.10148(12) 0.0185(2) Uani d 1 . .

    C C1 0.57231(7) 0.08251(10) 0.01406(14) 0.0165(2) Uani d 1 . .

    S S1 0.60344(2) 0.03798(3) -0.11091(4) 0.01977(10) Uani d 1 . .

    N N11 0.58540(6) 0.24076(9) 0.38595(12) 0.0181(2) Uani d 1 . .

    C C11 0.62454(8) 0.22828(11) 0.53994(15) 0.0204(3) Uani d 1 . .

    H H11 0.607248 0.168907 0.584775 0.025 Uiso calc 1 . .

    C C12 0.68901(8) 0.29758(12) 0.63729(16) 0.0244(3) Uani d 1 . .

    C C13 0.71270(9) 0.38429(13) 0.56974(18) 0.0297(3) Uani d 1 . .

    H H13 0.756660 0.433386 0.631780 0.036 Uiso calc 1 . .

    C C14 0.67207(10) 0.39913(13) 0.41148(19) 0.0309(3) Uani d 1 . .

    H H14 0.687354 0.458893 0.363972 0.037 Uiso calc 1 . .

    C C15 0.60876(9) 0.32557(12) 0.32326(16) 0.0240(3) Uani d 1 . .

    H H15 0.581066 0.335802 0.214608 0.029 Uiso calc 1 . .

    C C16 0.73170(9) 0.27472(15) 0.80794(17) 0.0336(3) Uani d 1 . .

    H H16A 0.696992 0.226009 0.835783 0.050 Uiso calc 1 . .

    H H16B 0.741856 0.346916 0.864123 0.050 Uiso calc 1 . .

    H H16C 0.784063 0.236346 0.835127 0.050 Uiso calc 1 . .

    N N21 0.4958(3) 0.5343(3) 0.0380(4) 0.0525(8) Uani d 0.5 A -1

    C C21 0.4990(2) 0.5882(3) 0.1369(4) 0.0366(7) Uani d 0.5 A -1

    C C22 0.4981(19) 0.6557(4) 0.238(3) 0.059(3) Uani d 0.5 A -1

    H H22A 0.511446 0.613590 0.333381 0.089 Uiso calc 0.5 A -1

    H H22B 0.443345 0.689575 0.200183 0.089 Uiso calc 0.5 A -1

    H H22C 0.538683 0.716083 0.258413 0.089 Uiso calc 0.5 A -1

 

Figure 5 of the paper shows disordered acetonitrile molecules (for example in the middle of the unit cell as viewed), and is nicely reproduced by Jmol when all symmetry operations of the space group

_space_group_name_H-M_alt     'C 1 2/c 1'

_space_group_name_Hall     '-C 2yc'

are applied:

 

 

 

If one looks at the area where the disorder occurs (around the acetonitrile molecule) in Jmol, showing superimposition of all symmetry-generated copies, one gets the following view:

 

 

Consider the green and purple pair; they are related through an inversion point (which Jmol can render as the little yellow sphere):

 

 

Let me call this configuration “nose-to-nose” (as a fanciful description of the shape and orientation of the molecules in this view). Likewise the orange and turquoise pair are related by inversion (this I’ll call “shoulder-to-shoulder”):

 

 

while the orange and purple are related by a c-glide plane:

 

 

Let me call this “nose-to-shoulder”. Now, note that Figure 1 of the original publication suppresses some of the disorder, and shows a neater arrangement of the acetonitrile molecules:

 

 

At first I thought this was a selection of “nose-to-nose” arrangements, but along this axis that’s not easy to tell – in projection all the possible configurations show a similar shape. However, it demonstrates that authors may feel a need to select among the disordered possibilities.

 

So the questions that come to my mind are:

 

(1) How did the authors produce their “tidy” Fig. 1? They cite the software they have used as Computer programs: CrysAlis PRO (Rigaku OD (2021). CrysAlis PRO. Rigaku Oxford Diffraction), SHELXT2014/5 (Sheldrick, G. M. (2015a). Acta Cryst. A71, 3-8), SHELXL2016/6 (Sheldrick, G. M. (2015b). Acta Cryst. C71, 3-8), DIAMOND (Brandenburg, K. & Putz, H. (1999). DIAMOND. Crystal Impact GbR, Bonn, Germany) and publCIF (Westrip, S. P. (2010). J. Appl. Cryst. 43, 920-925). I suspect that the visualization software DIAMOND was what they used for the figure.

 

(2) Is the selected pairing purely a rendering choice? I.e. the author can perhaps use the visualization software to show any one or more of the eight possible locations of the symmetry-transformed atoms. This is what Jmol is currently doing, although its right-click menu allows only each individual symmetry operation to be rendered, and not  pairs or other combinations. (It does, though, allow the superposition of all the symmetry operations.)

 

I note that in this example, if you consider the specific “pocket” that I have singled out, it is populated by the imposition of four of those symmetry operations, but not by the other four. (I suppose this is implied by the site occupancy factor of 0.5 for these atoms.) So if I (as an author) wanted to show all the pockets populated by particular orientations of the acetonitrile molecule, I would choose the half of the symmetry operations that would combine to provide me with my preferred rendering.

 

If I am not a crystallographically sophisticated user (which I am not), I might find this confusing or difficult to show. Could Jmol (without additional guidance) offer a choice of renderings which would populate the extended structure views with sets of symmetry-generated but not overlapping mates? E.g. in my example below, I have selected the symmetry operations that Jmol labels internally as A (yellow in this figure), D (red), B (green) and F (white).

 

And if I wanted to import this view into, say, DIAMOND, then Jmol could write the specific choices into a table such as Bob suggests, so that DIAMOND (or Mercury) would reproduce that view. This is certainly a use case for selecting particular disorder configurations, although it’s for the benefit of rendering programs rather than a physico-chemical description of the crystal structure.

 

 

(3) … which leads me to my third question, aimed at the crystallographers on the list. Are there refinement strategies (in SHELX or other software) that allow you to constrain the local symmetries at different locations? I.e. in my terminology, if the pocket at the centre of the unit cell contains “nose-to-nose” molecules, can you constrain the neighbouring pockets to be “shoulder-to-shoulder”? Would you even want to be able to do this? Are there any experimental features in the diffraction images that would give you some clue as to the distribution of those orientations? I would guess that cases like this are fairly rare – energetically the different orientations within the pocket must be very similar, but perhaps there are weak non-bonding interactions that do bias particular combinations. Might every pocket contain a “nose-to-shoulder” arrangement?

 

If these structural arrangements are amenable to discovery (or enforcement in refinement), then perhaps Bob’s _local_disorder_... items do indeed have a place in the crystal structure description.

 

Brian

 



Email Disclaimer: www.stjude.org/emaildisclaimer
Consultation Disclaimer: www.stjude.org/consultationdisclaimer
_______________________________________________
coreDMG mailing list
coreDMG@iucr.org
http://mailman.iucr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/coredmg

[Send comment to list secretary]
[Reply to list (subscribers only)]